You know when we are trying to convince our friends and families to leave platforms like Facebook it can be a bit of a sisyphean task. To be honest it is. If Facebook goes there will always be another platform like it. But that doesn't mean we can stop. It does mean we do what we can to try and support each other in this space. To build better community platforms that are decentralized. And yes I did just mention a Greek myth.
@onepict
Uphill battle certainly, but not necessarily Sisyphean. I think the Snowden leaks and more recent exposures of Big Tech's violations have at least opened more eyes. There will always be people who don't care, and those who do. I think realistic success will look more like positively tipping the balance and continuing to open eyes rather than getting to a point where we have a perfect relationship with tech. But of course that perfect relationship is what we should always aim for.
@syntax
To some extent we also need to drop the idea that folks are selfish and convenience is king. Facebook isn't easy to use for everyone, but it's the main system of communication with friends and family some people have. Same with Gmail. It's why what @Framasoft does is important. The chatons network of providers is young. These things take time, and we need to be patient. It did take years for Facebook to grow with the resources it had.
@onepict
Couple of points:
The 'power' of FB/IG/WhatsApp isn't in the quality of their product, but in the network effect.
If you want your friend to get away from those products, you have to also convince all their family/friends (and theirs) to move away too. For what they perceive to be a negligible difference (if at all).
GMail doesn't fit as it's just another email client, so the switching costs are ~ 0.
Also, FB had time as there weren't comparable products at the time.
@FreePietje
Although in Gmails case people access it mainly with Web and android clients. So there's the additional time cost of finding a client for accessing email. But that's the same with any service.
@syntax
@Framasoft
You are all very welcome.
@syntax
@syntax
Being in FLOSS to some of us really does feel like a Sisyphean struggle. Particularly in the commercial world. Sometimes you have success and clients how have been using Free Software for years. Then sometimes that customer rips it all out for Office 365. That's normal life in business. Software gets ripped out. It's just frustrating and you feel for those customers and somehow you let them down enough that they went for 365, and before that onsite Small Business Server.
@syntax
Even with Successful municipal installations of years, there is always the threat it will be ripped out. As I said, to some of us here the struggle is never-ending and comes with severe knocks at times. To some extent what keeps us going is a belief in FLOSS because of the freedom it gives us. But we need more than freedom to convince people outside our community here. So the work goes on.
@onepict @syntax this describes my feelings around this so amazingly well.
I guess two things need to happen:
1. somebody needs to get fired for choosing Windows (as the saying goes: "nobody got fired for choosing Windows")
2. the value of freedom and control FLOSS gives needs to be recognized, especially by public administration.
This is slowly happening, especially in the EU, in no small part thanks to @fsfe . But it's still ways off...
@syntax @onepict
I think/fear we 'techies' overestimate the impact of the Snowden leaks, illustrated brilliantly and funny by John Oliver: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M
The apathy wrt Big Tech abuses is also worrying.
This doesn't mean I disagree with you.
@FreePietje @syntax @onepict The two go hand in hand:
Big Tech not only spies on us as badly as the government, Big Tech also willingly hands that data over to the government for free, whether there is legal authority or not, and without concern over the potential harms of doing so.
@FreePietje
Oh my goodness the 🍆 example of sharing and how the NSA gets your data. is genius! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@syntax
@syntax
I think to some of our community it does feel never-ending. I also think there is a tiny bit of a barrier for some people who are a bit scared of Information Technology they feel it's magic. So they can use Gmail, and Facebook just. Scandals like Cambridge Analytica don't quite register. Neither does Snowden. We can't abandon those people, but we need more people who can communicate and empathise with them.