resist1984 @resist1984@social.privacytools.io

@ansuz @cryptpad W.r.t. Loomio, ethics.net is endorsing the service not the software. They *link* to the privacy-hostile walled-garden of CloudFlare. That's unethical. If ethics.net wants to endorse the /software/, they should link to a privacy-respecting website where the software can be obtained.

@ansuz @cryptpad Ethics is relative. OWS/Signal is doing *a lot* of unethical things, deliberately, knowingly and willfully, and there is a competing option (Jami) who is far more ethical.

@ansuz @cryptpad Sure it's their decision to subject users to the abuse of CloudFlare. It's also the decision of privacy-respecting users to boycott CloudFlare and go elsewhere. If one can take the software without stepping into CloudFlare's walled-garden, that may be a decent option, as long as they don't need to enter CloudFlare's walled-garden for documentation or support.

@ansuz @cryptpad A truly open system of this kind is Jami. Jami is free software, and the network is decentralized with no hostility toward developers of 3rd party apps.

@ansuz @cryptpad Signal's ecosystem is /closed/. Having open code enables them to market "transparency", but when someone developed an app for their network the protectectionism of Open Whisper Systems ensured a closed walled-garden.

@thoughtcrime @nextcloud CloudFlare has centralized around ~10-15% of the web. It's quite far from 100%, but it is much too much already for one privacy abuser to control.

@ansuz @cryptpad Signal has a huge list of privacy abuses documented here: https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/779. Loomio's services are jailed in the privacy-abusing walled-garden of CloudFlare, the ethical problems of which are documented here: https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/374

@cryptpad Useful overall but ethical.net lists some unethical choices: DDG, Loomio, Signal. Looks like they may be following the crowd and not doing research.

@nextcloud that is not a good site to pimp to privacy enthusiasts. It's a CloudFlare site.

@jonah @xioren00 Searx is indeed the answer. One searx instance stands above the rest: searxes.danwin1210.me. It filters out CloudFlare sites, making it the most privacy-respecting search service in existence.