It's a sign of the times that Uxn users on Lines have been putting in a lot of effort to figure out whether they are permitted by Apple to run a lightweight 8-bit VM without network access or piracy applications on hardware they own.
It is possible to have devices which are safe for most users to operate and yet can run software not approved by the manufacturer. Apple is simply choosing not to allow the latter for business reasons.
In some ways, it is true that this is because it's what "users want" - but at the same time, the two options right now are "cohesive ecosystem with a good image and lots of marketing about security, but low freedom" and, well, Android.
Of course most people will choose what they see as secure but limited over what they see as insecure and low-class. Apple has cultivated and image and ideology that puts them on top no matter what they do.
See, for example, the _very recent_ Twitter megathread about "blue bubble/green bubble", which included many people saying, without irony, that they would intentionally exclude non-iOS users from their social circles.
And, to be clear, I'm not saying that people are wrong for choosing iOS over Android or vice versa. People choose the tools they need to solve their problems and we must, as an axiom, be committed to not shaming them for that. In OS, in hardware platform, in software of choice.
I say this, by the way, because there is a persistent meme in the Fediverse memeplex that says "if you use FOSS made by bad people, you are a bad person". We all use proprietary stuff made by bad people; this is an unfortunate double standard.
@kensanata @tindall It's unclear to me how it's good for activism to toss out public shaming as a means to improve behavior.
@resist1984 @kensanata I think we should be very clear about what the problems are with our software and our hardware, as much as we are with other systems we participate in, but for many people the option is "use the tools you're used to or spend a year rebuilding all your skills". That's certainly true for me; if I had to move on from Vim or Ubuntu for some reason I'd be useless for months. That happened when I was learning Mac OS for my dayjob.
@tindall @kensanata When you talk about communication tools, choices *do* have impact. Digital tools are inherently political. Some people are being marginalized by bad tools. I am non-stop shaming politicians for using #Twitter to microblog exclusively, in a way that denies a voice to those who can't or won't supply a mobile phone number to twitter.
@kensanata @tindall and it's not just politicans. Whenever you're talking about communication means, friends are limited by what their friends have. Choices are not made in a vaccuum in that case.
@resist1984 @kensanata Yeah, I actually agree with this completely - but Twitter is not really a "tool" in the way, say, Firefox or a Macbook is. Me using Firefox doesn't prevent other people using, say, Chrome or Edge from accessing my stuff. Even using Word or Adobe Acrobat doesn't stop people from accessing what I make as long as I share it in an open format.
@tindall @kensanata To measure whether a battle is worth fighting comes down to how the user choice affects others. If a massive proportion of market share goes to Chromium, then webmasters cater for Chromium and it's harmful to the free world to the extent that users of freedom-privacy-respecting browsers get marginalized as a result.
@kensanata @tindall I bought an appliance that required accessing the maker's website in order to enter a reg code to get back an access code. It worked at the time of purchase, but then years later the mfr made changes to the site probably to cater for Chromium users, and I could no loger use the device I bought. And it was outside of the warranty. So even browser choice can impact at scale.
@resist1984 @kensanata I absolutely agree - but I don't think shaming people for using WebKit-based browsers is the most effective way to shift those people to other platforms. Most people are using the tools they use not merely out of inertia but because they have an affirmative need for those tools, for some reason.
@tindall @kensanata i don't tend to shame people in one-on-one encounters, because that's just influencing one person at most. When I publicly shame someone, changing that one person would be a short-sighted goal. It's more to pursuay bystanders. The more bystanders, the better, not because it increases the embarrassment, but because each bystander is an opportunity to influence.
@kensanata @tindall IOW, the person targetted for shame is just a prop.
@resist1984 don't forget that there is a significant proportion of people out there who find the exact approach you're describing to be hostile & distasteful and who will subsequently focus on disliking YOU and possibly your message as well. using "shame" as a social engineering tool is highly prone to backfiring. @kensanata @tindall
@deutrino @tindall @kensanata there's no shame in shaming unethical conduct. It's your ethical duty in fact. "Activism is my duty for living on this planet." -- Alice Walker. The state of things has gotten where it is due to apathy, which is a barrier to progress.
@kensanata @tindall @deutrino I just have to accept those who oppose activism itself as high hanging fruit. It's probably not worthwhile to try to reach them.
@resist1984 any ideology which claims some moral mandate for me to shame others is self-defeating and ultimately full of shit, imo. ymmv. @tindall @kensanata
@deutrino i mean, some things actually are more ethically sound than others. murder, say, or racism, or sexism or exploiting workers all seem like good things to shame people for, if it's effective.
@tindall oh totally... the lack of effectiveness with many intended targets is one place I part ways, there's another aspect to it tho that I can't articulate nearly so well. I think bc some who get too invested in shaming as social engineering technique then start insisting that everyone else must participate, and that it's the required method of participation. something like that.
@deutrino @kensanata @tindall yeah, I suppose. Activism is your duty, but style of activism may differ. We need all styles/modes of activism in play, but if your opponent (or audience) doesn't feel shame in their unethical actions then you've taken an approach that's ultimately ineffective & non-impactful.
@resist1984 thanks for being willing to discuss. I don't agree on your second point but definitely do agree on there being many ways to participate in the goal of having a non-shitty world for all.
I can't fully articulate all my objections yet btw. still trying to understand my own take on it, so this helps. last time it came up for me was in a discussion of one's duty to resist (and what that might entail) if the USA where I live does morph into a true full-on fascist totalitarian state.
Now I'm wondering how my original statement even works in this context; or do I have totally conflicting ideas about shame and morality.
The way social shaming is used within a culture war (the western world now, the red revolution in China, the various iconoclasms) does feel pathological (or at least starts with people dedicated to unwavering beliefs). Does it come from a genuine place of "This is bad and people should feel bad for..." racism, sexism, using proprietary software, using free software for racism...?
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@Moon I'm extremely wary of them!
@resist1984 for example I agree we have a duty to resist fascists at some point before or certainly once they've seized power, but my chosen methods would cease to include shaming long before the equivalent of the beer hall putsch. my style is very rarely direct confrontational. and then it leads to all these questions about "what if you don't fight but just make food / tend wounds / do support for the good guys, is that resistance" etc. which relate to valid questions in less extreme times.
@tindall @resist1984 @kensanata Sounds like the main difference here is in agency? i.e. not taking it away from others?
Which is fine. The immediate counter to that though is that "defaults matter," so we should absolutely encourage people to pick software with better defaults, for whatever that means... 😬
@deejoe @kensanata @tindall not sure why you'd delete that. It's actually not working out at all. I've not swayed a single politician AFAIK, but I think politicians rarely care about one person. I just hope that enough other people will make the same demand and change the tide. It's always an additional request. I write to the politician for one reason, and say "by the way, replace your twtr acct w/Mastodon".
@tindall @kensanata @deejoe It's hard to compete with corporate lobbists though, who will flood a politician with letters from fake identities to make it look as if large numbers of individuals want a policy that favors the corps. That's actually how #netneutrality lost in the US. The lobbyists were caught in that case but it was too late.
@deejoe @kensanata @tindall "ISPs Funded 8.5 Million Fake Comments Opposing Net Neutrality" https://www.wired.com/story/isps-funded-85-million-fake-comments-opposing-net-neutrality/
@resist1984 @deejoe @kensanata @tindall In the EU, mobile operators commonly offer unlimited transfers to big-corpo services: YT, FB, which is nothing but a violation of net neutrality.
@resist1984 @deejoe @kensanata @tindall @cjd In this case, they accidentally do something good for selfish reasons and with inappropriate methods.
@clacke @kensanata @resist1984 a little sensitive, are we?
@tindall @kensanata @clacke so i understand, are you saying oil pipeline protesters are pro-environment while pleroma is resource intensive? Pleroma's stock web client is quite heavy but 3rd party apps are probably lean enough to make it moot. https://docs-develop.pleroma.social/backend/clients
@clacke @kensanata @tindall If all pleroma clients were hypothetically unjustifiably heavy, then you'd be doing a svc to point it out to the climate activists.
@resist1984 @clacke @kensanata no, I'm saying that the people who make pleroma are largely assholes but it's very lightweight and helps people afford to self host which I think is worth it, especially because you don't have to pay the people making it to use it.
@resist1984 @clacke @kensanata @tindall The pleroma server is very low-resource though.
@resist1984 @kensanata it's not good activism to be angry at people who can't change anything, especially over things that have a minimal impact. I don't care if you use a Macbook to make posters for your community organizing and I don't care if you use Pleroma to get a bunch of your friends together to protest the pipeline.