@marc0janssen
There is no point if your friends don't use it, try to convince close friends and then spread that circle slowly

@nikolal yes that’s the hard part. All are not worried or conscious about privacy at all.

@marc0janssen @nikolal you should ditch both & . github.com/privacytoolsIO/priv Tell your friends if they really care to stay in touch with you, they would not impose a system that requires you to register a phone#.

@marc0janssen
I think you need to set up first your threat model. Do you need your chats to be secure while you chat with your friends? Or do you need to have anonymity while chatting? I don't need anonymity but I like my chats to be secure with FOSS project so I'm using Signal which is proven to do that job very well. thehackernews.com/2016/10/sign
As for anonymous chat apps I suggest Briar, but again you have to scan each other QR codes for identity exchange
@resist1984

@nikolal @resist1984 thanks Nikolal. I need to start convincing people to use signal. I read that Facebook also bought gyphy. People need to see that Facebook is up to no good.

@marc0janssen @nikolal convincing ppl to use makes you part of the problem. You become the person that pushes people into a that excludes those who don't want to share their ph# & patronize all the privacy-abusing tech giants. See github.com/privacytoolsIO/priv

@nikolal @marc0janssen mass surveillance should be in your threat model, and promotes all the mass surveillance-pushing tech giants (, , , )

@marc0janssen @nikolal for iOS (and presumably low-tech users) you need Wire, which doesn't require a ph#.

@marc0janssen @nikolal no it doesn't. It's optional. If you don't supply a ph# then you must supply an email (which can be disposable)

@resist1984 @nikolal ok ok But I think you are must more anonymous aware they I am. I don’t need to reach the 100% ;-)

@marc0janssen @nikolal I don't need Snowden-level security either. My main objective is ethical consumption. Privacy is secondary. It's about boycotting corporate harm & wrongdoing. Signal feeds lots of bad players.

@nikolal @marc0janssen if your friends give any friction over using , , or , & you know they don't give a rat's ass about , ethics is easier to sell. E.g. helped Trump get elected.

@resist1984 @nikolal but I live in Europe. We don’t give a shit about trump and his administration.

@marc0janssen @nikolal first of all, you should care about what Trump is doing to the planet, what he did to Ukraine - his destruction is not confined to the US. And that was just an example.

@nikolal @marc0janssen Amazon is causing immeasurable harm to the environment, and you can't tell me Amazon isn't affecting Europe. Amazon hired neo nazis in Germany to intimidate immgrant workers. Signal and Wire use Amazon for hosting.

@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit Perhaps in the 1940s you could call opposition to racism "extremism", but in 2020 it's mainstream to oppose racist ideologies. It's mainstream to accept the science on climate change. It's climate denial and white nationalism that require propaganda.

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit but weird to look in every corner with your conspiracy eyes and call every thing neo-nazi if so where in a far distance something is amiss. You’re weird.

@resist1984 @techit @nikolal that’s good. I dislike trump. But it seems you are a great fan because you see conspiracy everywhere.

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit about your source: every king wrote down his on history. He did so after defeating the reveal king.

@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal if you think the history books are too hard on the nazis, you're free to leave Germany and write a book that sets the record straight

@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit To ignore politics is to be ignorant. It's ignorance by choice, which is worse. And it's consistent with your contempt for ethical consumption.

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit I respect your choices, but they are not mine. No need to convince me. In your eyes I'm a neo-nazi sympathizer. That will never change in your eyes. But which is not true. But because your standpoint to so far left, from your point of view I look like a right-winged person, which I am not. (probably all sensible people are right-winged in your eyes).

@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal this is like saying "those Trump supporters are not racist". While some are not, in the end their actions support racist policy. You've chosen to continue supporting Amazon, which doesn't make you racist, anti-environment, anti-workers rights, and pro-surveillance, but it makes you a supporter of those outcomes.

@resist1984 @techit @nikolal yes dear resist1984, but if I choose to do not so I end up in the woods with a campfire and a bunch of veggies on a stick. Because all the stuff I use in life could be traced back to something “evil”.

@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit that's a false dichotomy. Treating everything as a binary "evil or non-evil" and calling all evil is the same degree of evil is just a broken rationalization for ethical neglect. If you don't buy your books from Amazon, you can still buy them from the family owned and operated bookstore down the street.

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit That is true. But do you trace that family-owed bookstore to make sure they "were not wrong in the war" too?

@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal there's a limit on how much investigation you can do, but certainly if an ethical consumer comes across some damning information they move on to a lesser evil.

@resist1984 @techit @nikolal But for me "whole of amazon" is not bad, if 1 manager decides to hire the wrong security company. I'm sure this mistake was corrected!

@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit is one of the most evil companies you can patronize. It would be a struggle to find a less ethical supplier. Environment alone is sufficient to boycott them: framagit.org/greenfediverse/gr

@techit @nikolal @marc0janssen Amazon runs extreme sweat shops with no mercy for workers who are extra vulnerable to COVID19. The privacy abuses are endless.

@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit Back before I was boycotting Amazon, I did have a bad experience with them. But it's irrelevant. I boycott them over their endless list of social wrongdoing

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit The point is all big Companies do some kind of wrong.

I like a lot, but hey they squeeze that chinese workers how build their iPhones... But which smartphone manufacture doesn't.... I don't want to go back to the clay-tablet..

@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal Your point is still based on the false dichotomy that the choice is evil and not evil. There are many degrees of evil, and and are far less evil than iPhone.

@techit @nikolal @marc0janssen If I had to buy a phone now, it would probably be a or . But the most ethical phone is the one you already have. It's better not to replace one needlessly. I don't need anything newer than my old Wiko.

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@resist1984 @techit @nikolal And Yes there are many levels of evils. And the only thing you want is that I choose the same level as you.

@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit i guess i'd be satisfied if you just reach the point of acknowledging that there are many degrees of evil and accept that as rationale to avoid the worst of them.

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@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal Google is less evil than Amazon, but still evil. There are more ethical data centers to use than AWS and Google cloud.

@resist1984 @techit @nikolal You are moving more to the forrest with that campfire and the veggies on the stick now, you realize that right?

@amerika @marc0janssen @nikolal @resist1984 @techit "Nazis" have been irrelevant and practically dead for over 70 years, yet their enemies are still paranoid, afraid and stop seeing them everywhere.

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit Dude, if you dig deep enough there is always dirty to be found, even in technology you use, or your landlord, or the energy-company you use... whatever. Then you need to let go of society and go live in the woods.

@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal yes, there is usually dirt to be found. This is not good rationale for ignoring it. It's not an excuse for social irresponsibility. If you're an ethical consumer, you avoid the greatest evils and patronize the lesser of evils.

@resist1984 @nikolal @marc0janssen I saw this, it isn't the evil, it might be your own political thoughts nothing more

@techit @marc0janssen @nikolal political ideas obviously separate evil from non-evil. It's the whole point of politics, in fact.

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