@marc0janssen
There is no point if your friends don't use it, try to convince close friends and then spread that circle slowly
@nikolal yes that’s the hard part. All are not worried or conscious about privacy at all.
@marc0janssen @nikolal you should ditch both #WhatsApp & #signal. https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/779 Tell your friends if they really care to stay in touch with you, they would not impose a system that requires you to register a phone#.
@resist1984 @nikolal what do you use then? Riot?
@marc0janssen
I think you need to set up first your threat model. Do you need your chats to be secure while you chat with your friends? Or do you need to have anonymity while chatting? I don't need anonymity but I like my chats to be secure with FOSS project so I'm using Signal which is proven to do that job very well. https://thehackernews.com/2016/10/signal-messenger-fbi-subpoena.html?m=1
As for anonymous chat apps I suggest Briar, but again you have to scan each other QR codes for identity exchange
@resist1984
@nikolal @resist1984 thanks Nikolal. I need to start convincing people to use signal. I read that Facebook also bought gyphy. People need to see that Facebook is up to no good.
@marc0janssen @nikolal convincing ppl to use #Signal makes you part of the problem. You become the person that pushes people into a #walledgarden that excludes those who don't want to share their ph# & patronize all the privacy-abusing tech giants. See https://github.com/privacytoolsIO/privacytools.io/issues/779
@nikolal @marc0janssen mass surveillance should be in your threat model, and #Signal promotes all the mass surveillance-pushing tech giants (#Amazon, #Google, #CloudFlare, #Facebook)
@resist1984 @nikolal nice you push briar but can you get me a iOS client please.
@marc0janssen @nikolal for iOS (and presumably low-tech users) you need Wire, which doesn't require a ph#.
@resist1984 Wire needs a phone# too babe. @nikolal
@marc0janssen @nikolal no it doesn't. It's optional. If you don't supply a ph# then you must supply an email (which can be disposable)
@resist1984 @nikolal ok ok But I think you are must more anonymous aware they I am. I don’t need to reach the 100% ;-)
@marc0janssen @nikolal I don't need Snowden-level security either. My main objective is ethical consumption. Privacy is secondary. It's about boycotting corporate harm & wrongdoing. Signal feeds lots of bad players.
@resist1984 @nikolal but I live in Europe. We don’t give a shit about trump and his administration.
@marc0janssen @nikolal first of all, you should care about what Trump is doing to the planet, what he did to Ukraine - his destruction is not confined to the US. And that was just an example.
@nikolal @marc0janssen Amazon is causing immeasurable harm to the environment, and you can't tell me Amazon isn't affecting Europe. Amazon hired neo nazis in Germany to intimidate immgrant workers. Signal and Wire use Amazon for hosting.
@nikolal @marc0janssen #amazon also partnered with BP and Shell to use machine learning to dig for fossil fuel. This is not strictly US harm.
@resist1984 @nikolal I guess this started with a simple question about a chat-app
@marc0janssen @nikolal that "chat app" feeds corporations who do bad things.
@resist1984 @nikolal all may lead to bad thing. Are you willing to back to a cave and a spear?
@marc0janssen @nikolal are you saying all suppliers are /equally/ evil?
@nikolal @marc0janssen if you study what these companies do, their impact on the world is nowhere near equal.
@resist1984 @nikolal what I said. Go find a cave and make a fire.
@marc0janssen @nikolal you can choose to be unethical, but you should acknowledge it. The "all companies are evil so no need to boycott" pov is your excuse to not participate in ethical consumption
@resist1984 @nikolal I boycott my love. But I will also not live in a cave like you want.
@marc0janssen @nikolal to equate giving up Amazon with "living in a cave" is to put material goods above the environment
@nikolal @marc0janssen you don't have to "live in a cave", you just have to spend a bit more.. sometimes double. Ethics isn't free but if you're going to put greed above it then you're not living ethically
@resist1984 @nikolal yes I do at times. That is called living. Look love, the problem is there are 7 billion people on this earth. The LONELY way to fix YOUR problem is to get ride of 7 billion people.
@marc0janssen @nikolal this is just another recycling of the claim "being ethical is impossible". It's total horseshit.
@nikolal @marc0janssen being ethical entails patronizing the competitors of the least ethical suppliers. You're just making excuses to feed your greed.
@resist1984 @nikolal maybe I will. I can’t keep up you with the flood of messages either. Keep your resistance up 100%. Good luck in the world, love.
@resist1984 @nikolal ethical at 5% ? 10% 30% ? 70% or 150%
@resist1984 @nikolal I am saying that is whole world is corrupt. And in the end you will always find evil or evil along its path. So you bettter start preparing for your cave.
@marc0janssen @nikolal is in effect, you're saying there is no variation in evil.. that it's just as wrong to support a company that uses disposable plates in their kitchen as a company that pollutes and digs for fossil fuels
@resist1984 @nikolal no. I take my responsibility with the environment. But I am not that passionate about it as you.
@marc0janssen @nikolal if you're willing to patronize Amazon, then you're not really being environmentally responsible.
@marc0janssen
I gave you my oppinion, do what you want with it
@resist1984
@nikolal @resist1984 I will Nikola. Thank you man.
@resist1984 @nikolal but I guess you know what neo-nazis admire , don’t you?
@marc0janssen @nikolal i'm not sure why you seem to be sympathetic to neo-nazis, but there's plenty of *global* wrongdoing at the hands of Amazon, Google, and CloudFlare. If you don't give a shit, then ethics is obviously a moot point for you.
@resist1984 @nikolal I am NOT!! I just try to tell that all is not in your hands. And eventually all can have a relation with evil do-ers !
@resist1984 @nikolal Werner van Braun always flown to the US to help you guys build rockets. What space technology are you using. You have a microwave, love? Are you now not using microwaves anymore because of Werner von Braun?
@resist1984 @nikolal @marc0janssen who told you that
@techit @resist1984 @nikolal oh please don’t light this fire again.
@marc0janssen @resist1984 @nikolal haha
BTW signal is good, you should use it
@techit @resist1984 @nikolal I know. The rest was just extreme left wing propaganda.
@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit Perhaps in the 1940s you could call opposition to racism "extremism", but in 2020 it's mainstream to oppose racist ideologies. It's mainstream to accept the science on climate change. It's climate denial and white nationalism that require propaganda.
@resist1984 @nikolal @techit but weird to look in every corner with your conspiracy eyes and call every thing neo-nazi if so where in a far distance something is amiss. You’re weird.
@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal it's very Trump-like to cry "hoax" or "conspiracy" as a knee-jerk reaction as you are. But it doesn't work - not without citing your sources. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/amazon-used-neo-nazi-guards-to-keep-immigrant-workforce-under-control-in-germany-8495843.html
@resist1984 @techit @nikolal that’s good. I dislike trump. But it seems you are a great fan because you see conspiracy everywhere.
@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit i'm citing sources, you're claiming "conspiracy"
@resist1984 @nikolal @techit about your source: every king wrote down his on history. He did so after defeating the reveal king.
@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal if you think the history books are too hard on the nazis, you're free to leave Germany and write a book that sets the record straight
@resist1984 @techit @nikolal You are soooo stupid.
@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit To ignore politics is to be ignorant. It's ignorance by choice, which is worse. And it's consistent with your contempt for ethical consumption.
@resist1984 @nikolal @techit I respect your choices, but they are not mine. No need to convince me. In your eyes I'm a neo-nazi sympathizer. That will never change in your eyes. But which is not true. But because your standpoint to so far left, from your point of view I look like a right-winged person, which I am not. (probably all sensible people are right-winged in your eyes).
@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal this is like saying "those Trump supporters are not racist". While some are not, in the end their actions support racist policy. You've chosen to continue supporting Amazon, which doesn't make you racist, anti-environment, anti-workers rights, and pro-surveillance, but it makes you a supporter of those outcomes.
@resist1984 @techit @nikolal yes dear resist1984, but if I choose to do not so I end up in the woods with a campfire and a bunch of veggies on a stick. Because all the stuff I use in life could be traced back to something “evil”.
@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit that's a false dichotomy. Treating everything as a binary "evil or non-evil" and calling all evil is the same degree of evil is just a broken rationalization for ethical neglect. If you don't buy your books from Amazon, you can still buy them from the family owned and operated bookstore down the street.
@resist1984 @nikolal @techit That is true. But do you trace that family-owed bookstore to make sure they "were not wrong in the war" too?
@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal there's a limit on how much investigation you can do, but certainly if an ethical consumer comes across some damning information they move on to a lesser evil.
@resist1984 @nikolal @techit Dude, if you dig deep enough there is always dirty to be found, even in technology you use, or your landlord, or the energy-company you use... whatever. Then you need to let go of society and go live in the woods.
@marc0janssen @resist1984 @nikolal
it seems the best approach
@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal yes, there is usually dirt to be found. This is not good rationale for ignoring it. It's not an excuse for social irresponsibility. If you're an ethical consumer, you avoid the greatest evils and patronize the lesser of evils.
@resist1984 @marc0janssen @nikolal signal isn't the evil
@resist1984 @nikolal @marc0janssen I saw this, it isn't the evil, it might be your own political thoughts nothing more
@techit @marc0janssen @nikolal political ideas obviously separate evil from non-evil. It's the whole point of politics, in fact.
@resist1984 @nikolal oh man.... I better stop using the internet now. I am not sure if anything is safe too use now. The lady in the shop here to sell me my books cause have an grandfather that might accidentally looked at a nazi in WWII.