There is no point if your friends don't use it, try to convince close friends and then spread that circle slowly

@nikolal yes that’s the hard part. All are not worried or conscious about privacy at all.

@marc0janssen @nikolal you should ditch both & . github.com/privacytoolsIO/priv Tell your friends if they really care to stay in touch with you, they would not impose a system that requires you to register a phone#.

I think you need to set up first your threat model. Do you need your chats to be secure while you chat with your friends? Or do you need to have anonymity while chatting? I don't need anonymity but I like my chats to be secure with FOSS project so I'm using Signal which is proven to do that job very well. thehackernews.com/2016/10/sign
As for anonymous chat apps I suggest Briar, but again you have to scan each other QR codes for identity exchange

@nikolal @resist1984 thanks Nikolal. I need to start convincing people to use signal. I read that Facebook also bought gyphy. People need to see that Facebook is up to no good.

@marc0janssen @nikolal convincing ppl to use makes you part of the problem. You become the person that pushes people into a that excludes those who don't want to share their ph# & patronize all the privacy-abusing tech giants. See github.com/privacytoolsIO/priv

@nikolal @marc0janssen mass surveillance should be in your threat model, and promotes all the mass surveillance-pushing tech giants (, , , )

@marc0janssen @nikolal for iOS (and presumably low-tech users) you need Wire, which doesn't require a ph#.

@marc0janssen @nikolal no it doesn't. It's optional. If you don't supply a ph# then you must supply an email (which can be disposable)

@resist1984 @nikolal ok ok But I think you are must more anonymous aware they I am. I don’t need to reach the 100% ;-)


@marc0janssen @nikolal I don't need Snowden-level security either. My main objective is ethical consumption. Privacy is secondary. It's about boycotting corporate harm & wrongdoing. Signal feeds lots of bad players.

@nikolal @marc0janssen if your friends give any friction over using , , or , & you know they don't give a rat's ass about , ethics is easier to sell. E.g. helped Trump get elected.

@resist1984 @nikolal but I live in Europe. We don’t give a shit about trump and his administration.

@marc0janssen @nikolal first of all, you should care about what Trump is doing to the planet, what he did to Ukraine - his destruction is not confined to the US. And that was just an example.

@resist1984 @nikolal yep. We are not in the election proces. We can only tell our governments to take action. But since we are in a pact with the USA for decades.......

@marc0janssen @nikolal just b/c you can't vote doesn't mean you don't have any influence on US elections. Do you own any Sony or Motorola products? Do you ever buy Marlboro cigs, Goose Island IPA, or ship FedEx? These corps finance the republican party in the US.

@nikolal @marc0janssen Amazon is causing immeasurable harm to the environment, and you can't tell me Amazon isn't affecting Europe. Amazon hired neo nazis in Germany to intimidate immgrant workers. Signal and Wire use Amazon for hosting.

@resist1984 @nikolal oh man.... I better stop using the internet now. I am not sure if anything is safe too use now. The lady in the shop here to sell me my books cause have an grandfather that might accidentally looked at a nazi in WWII.

@nikolal @marc0janssen also partnered with BP and Shell to use machine learning to dig for fossil fuel. This is not strictly US harm.

@resist1984 @nikolal all may lead to bad thing. Are you willing to back to a cave and a spear?

@nikolal @marc0janssen if you study what these companies do, their impact on the world is nowhere near equal.

@marc0janssen @nikolal you can choose to be unethical, but you should acknowledge it. The "all companies are evil so no need to boycott" pov is your excuse to not participate in ethical consumption

@resist1984 @nikolal I boycott my love. But I will also not live in a cave like you want.

@marc0janssen @nikolal to equate giving up Amazon with "living in a cave" is to put material goods above the environment

@nikolal @marc0janssen you don't have to "live in a cave", you just have to spend a bit more.. sometimes double. Ethics isn't free but if you're going to put greed above it then you're not living ethically

@resist1984 @nikolal yes I do at times. That is called living. Look love, the problem is there are 7 billion people on this earth. The LONELY way to fix YOUR problem is to get ride of 7 billion people.

@marc0janssen @nikolal this is just another recycling of the claim "being ethical is impossible". It's total horseshit.

@nikolal @marc0janssen being ethical entails patronizing the competitors of the least ethical suppliers. You're just making excuses to feed your greed.

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@resist1984 @nikolal I am saying that is whole world is corrupt. And in the end you will always find evil or evil along its path. So you bettter start preparing for your cave.

@marc0janssen @nikolal is in effect, you're saying there is no variation in evil.. that it's just as wrong to support a company that uses disposable plates in their kitchen as a company that pollutes and digs for fossil fuels

@resist1984 @nikolal no. I take my responsibility with the environment. But I am not that passionate about it as you.

@marc0janssen @nikolal if you're willing to patronize Amazon, then you're not really being environmentally responsible.

@marc0janssen @nikolal i'm not sure why you seem to be sympathetic to neo-nazis, but there's plenty of *global* wrongdoing at the hands of Amazon, Google, and CloudFlare. If you don't give a shit, then ethics is obviously a moot point for you.

@resist1984 @nikolal I am NOT!! I just try to tell that all is not in your hands. And eventually all can have a relation with evil do-ers !

@resist1984 @nikolal Werner van Braun always flown to the US to help you guys build rockets. What space technology are you using. You have a microwave, love? Are you now not using microwaves anymore because of Werner von Braun?

@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit Perhaps in the 1940s you could call opposition to racism "extremism", but in 2020 it's mainstream to oppose racist ideologies. It's mainstream to accept the science on climate change. It's climate denial and white nationalism that require propaganda.

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit but weird to look in every corner with your conspiracy eyes and call every thing neo-nazi if so where in a far distance something is amiss. You’re weird.

@resist1984 @techit @nikolal that’s good. I dislike trump. But it seems you are a great fan because you see conspiracy everywhere.

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit about your source: every king wrote down his on history. He did so after defeating the reveal king.

@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal if you think the history books are too hard on the nazis, you're free to leave Germany and write a book that sets the record straight

@marc0janssen @nikolal @techit To ignore politics is to be ignorant. It's ignorance by choice, which is worse. And it's consistent with your contempt for ethical consumption.

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit I respect your choices, but they are not mine. No need to convince me. In your eyes I'm a neo-nazi sympathizer. That will never change in your eyes. But which is not true. But because your standpoint to so far left, from your point of view I look like a right-winged person, which I am not. (probably all sensible people are right-winged in your eyes).

@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal this is like saying "those Trump supporters are not racist". While some are not, in the end their actions support racist policy. You've chosen to continue supporting Amazon, which doesn't make you racist, anti-environment, anti-workers rights, and pro-surveillance, but it makes you a supporter of those outcomes.

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@amerika @marc0janssen @nikolal @resist1984 @techit "Nazis" have been irrelevant and practically dead for over 70 years, yet their enemies are still paranoid, afraid and stop seeing them everywhere.

@resist1984 @nikolal @techit Dude, if you dig deep enough there is always dirty to be found, even in technology you use, or your landlord, or the energy-company you use... whatever. Then you need to let go of society and go live in the woods.

@marc0janssen @techit @nikolal yes, there is usually dirt to be found. This is not good rationale for ignoring it. It's not an excuse for social irresponsibility. If you're an ethical consumer, you avoid the greatest evils and patronize the lesser of evils.

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