There is no point if your friends don't use it, try to convince close friends and then spread that circle slowly

@nikolal yes that’s the hard part. All are not worried or conscious about privacy at all.


@marc0janssen @nikolal you should ditch both & . github.com/privacytoolsIO/priv Tell your friends if they really care to stay in touch with you, they would not impose a system that requires you to register a phone#.

I think you need to set up first your threat model. Do you need your chats to be secure while you chat with your friends? Or do you need to have anonymity while chatting? I don't need anonymity but I like my chats to be secure with FOSS project so I'm using Signal which is proven to do that job very well. thehackernews.com/2016/10/sign
As for anonymous chat apps I suggest Briar, but again you have to scan each other QR codes for identity exchange

@nikolal @resist1984 thanks Nikolal. I need to start convincing people to use signal. I read that Facebook also bought gyphy. People need to see that Facebook is up to no good.

@marc0janssen @nikolal convincing ppl to use makes you part of the problem. You become the person that pushes people into a that excludes those who don't want to share their ph# & patronize all the privacy-abusing tech giants. See github.com/privacytoolsIO/priv

@nikolal @marc0janssen mass surveillance should be in your threat model, and promotes all the mass surveillance-pushing tech giants (, , , )

@marc0janssen @nikolal for iOS (and presumably low-tech users) you need Wire, which doesn't require a ph#.

@resist1984 @marc0janssen @nikolal you don't need to use matrix.org to use matrix. Self hosting is not so difficult and then you can easily bridge WhatsApp, messenger, telegram,... @yunohost gets you online pretty quickly with all the # fediverse goodies
@marc0janssen @nikolal @resist1984 yes doing it for more than a year now. @yunohost has an app for it but you still need to run an android VM somewhere. I run mine in a docker.

@jeroen @yunohost @nikolal @resist1984

Well this idea seems temping, but a bridge to whatsapp will still have my conversations on whatsapp. Then you sort of missed the whole point of walking away from whatsapp.

@marc0janssen @yunohost @nikolal @resist1984 not really. At least they don't now any more where I've been and fingerprint my phone.

@marc0janssen @nikolal no it doesn't. It's optional. If you don't supply a ph# then you must supply an email (which can be disposable)

@resist1984 @nikolal ok ok But I think you are must more anonymous aware they I am. I don’t need to reach the 100% ;-)

@marc0janssen @nikolal I don't need Snowden-level security either. My main objective is ethical consumption. Privacy is secondary. It's about boycotting corporate harm & wrongdoing. Signal feeds lots of bad players.

@nikolal @marc0janssen if your friends give any friction over using , , or , & you know they don't give a rat's ass about , ethics is easier to sell. E.g. helped Trump get elected.

@resist1984 @nikolal but I live in Europe. We don’t give a shit about trump and his administration.

@marc0janssen @nikolal first of all, you should care about what Trump is doing to the planet, what he did to Ukraine - his destruction is not confined to the US. And that was just an example.

@resist1984 @nikolal yep. We are not in the election proces. We can only tell our governments to take action. But since we are in a pact with the USA for decades.......

@marc0janssen @nikolal just b/c you can't vote doesn't mean you don't have any influence on US elections. Do you own any Sony or Motorola products? Do you ever buy Marlboro cigs, Goose Island IPA, or ship FedEx? These corps finance the republican party in the US.

@nikolal @marc0janssen Amazon is causing immeasurable harm to the environment, and you can't tell me Amazon isn't affecting Europe. Amazon hired neo nazis in Germany to intimidate immgrant workers. Signal and Wire use Amazon for hosting.

@resist1984 @nikolal oh man.... I better stop using the internet now. I am not sure if anything is safe too use now. The lady in the shop here to sell me my books cause have an grandfather that might accidentally looked at a nazi in WWII.

@nikolal @marc0janssen also partnered with BP and Shell to use machine learning to dig for fossil fuel. This is not strictly US harm.

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@marc0janssen @nikolal i'm not sure why you seem to be sympathetic to neo-nazis, but there's plenty of *global* wrongdoing at the hands of Amazon, Google, and CloudFlare. If you don't give a shit, then ethics is obviously a moot point for you.

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@resist1984 @nikolal Werner van Braun always flown to the US to help you guys build rockets. What space technology are you using. You have a microwave, love? Are you now not using microwaves anymore because of Werner von Braun?

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@marc0janssen @nikolal

Even though wire is #foss and one doesn't need ph# and can use disposable #email with #wire. wire target market is #enterprise, 🤑not the consumer market🤢, although they have free consumer app. wire is more for #security rather than #anonymity as their #metadata is saved on wire servers in #cleartext. It can also be self-hosted.

So wire is good for security, but not to be #anonymous😎 (sort of if disposable email used)

Just my two cents input.

peace out👌👍😎

@nikolal @marc0janssen @resist1984 Briar is excellent, and it no longer required scanning QR codes. From my review:
"7/7/2019- Update: You can now add remote contacts by exchanging Briar URLs. In the contacts list choose the "Add contact at a distance" option and enter the Briar URL of your remote contact which they will need to send you via another channel. This is also where you will see your own Briar URL to send to others."

@supernova @nikolal @resist1984 all are brilliant. But the trouble is getting your contacts to migrate. Otherwise it will be lonely chats with yourself.

@marc0janssen @nikolal @resist1984
Yes the trouble is convincing people to care about privacy. All you can do is mention the latest Facebook/WhatsApp scandal in casual conversation. I think Signal is the best gateway to get people to better options if you already know their phone number.

@supernova @nikolal @resist1984 yes. I know their numbers. But they have to install that app. I hear a lot that they will miss out with their contacts because they don’t switch. It seems it missing a critical mass. Whatsapp was just there at the right time 10 years ago when people looked for alternatives to SMS/text. Facebook had the right amount of money years later.

@supernova @nikolal @marc0janssen You don't need to convince friends to care about . You only need to convince them that *you* care about privacy. If they're your friend, that will respect that.

@supernova @marc0janssen @nikolal @resist1984
#Signal as the rest of centralised services is less secure than decentralised ones. The main thought is that the centralised ones are more vulnerable to external factors like pressure groups.If people could set e-mail address on various servers they can set xmpp address.Try #xmpp. You can even run your own server. Imagine that #Google about 20 years ago had a motto "don't be evil".Perhaps #Moxie is cool and brave guy today but tomorrow nobody knows.

@marc0janssen @nikolal @supernova it sounds like we're talking about not so good friends. If someone is too lazy to install Briar in order to talk to you, do they really care to talk to you? I wouldn't be so fast to call them a friend. You need to stand up for yourself. I don't have a Facebook account and my friends respect that. They know that Facebook is /their/ problem- a bad habit that needs to be kicked.

I should value people over chat app they are willing to use? My really good friends prefer chatting live with beer as communication booster over some stupid app. Get a grip dude
@marc0janssen @supernova

@nikolal @resist1984 @marc0janssen This is getting away from the OP request for suggestions. You could slowly limit your use of WhatsApp, not respond to them in a timely manner and mention that Signal is the best way to contact you. Don't cut off WA completely but make it a little painful. Most people have lots of apps, so ask them to kindly install Signal, what's one more really going to hurt?

@nikolal @supernova @marc0janssen it's the other way around. It's your friends who don't value you if they refuse to contact you using your chosen app of higher ethical and privacy standards.

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