kravietz 🦇 @kravietz@social.privacytools.io

@dump_stack

> that actually exist there and used

Helium and infrasound weapons actually exist.

There's just literally zero evidence they were used in this particular case, just as with the Oleksandrivske story.

@dump_stack

> that's demagogy

100% agree, what you do here is demagogy indeed.

@dump_stack

You forgot the question:

> Do you have the same in Russia?

@dump_stack

Absolutely. The "Smoleńsk assassination" story is also based on real events - the plane crashed, after all. The helium guys never told it's proven, they're just asking "what if there was helium" and "what if there was infrasound weapon" questions. It has absolutely nothing to do with shifting the blame, they're just asking questions after all.

@dump_stack

> Russian culture in the Ukraine

So how about Ukrainian culture in Ukraine? Did you see many pro-Ukrainian demonstrations in Donetsk recently? 🤔

@dump_stack

> pushes the Russian language lower

How exactly?

@dump_stack

You're now clearly in the "what if evil Russians released helium in Smolensk to cause the Polish Tu-154 lose drag and crash" mode. There's no evidence they haven't released helium, so it's possible they did, isn't it?

@dump_stack

So you agree that the story as pushed at Russian media was fake? They had no doubts about what happened:

A scientific look at conspiracy theories - @dump_stack you asked about Polish approach, this was just published.

P.S. this is by Polish authors, but not related to the Polish government.

https://www.liberalforum.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/BFE-FINAL-PUBLICATION.pdf

@dump_stack

> doesn't imply that there is no propaganda

Somehow in US you have mainstream media openly criticising and supporting US foreign and internal policies.

You had mainstream media supporting and opposing BLM, military involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, all that discussed in heated debated on TV in prime time.

You had US TV openly discussing US military crimes in Iraq and Afghanistan, you have people openly criticising Trump and Biden on TV.

Do you have the same in Russia?

@dump_stack

> three different presidents

Ah yes, you count Medvedev as a president 😂

@dump_stack

The difference is that in Russia the threats are largely invented - there's no conspiracy to to invade Russia or break it apart or make it all gay or atheist - while Ukraine actually was invaded by Russian forces and is subject to aggressive active measures all the time.

@dump_stack

> it was nationalistic at the outcome

Ukrainian policy is not any more "nationalistic" than Russian, for that matter. They are opposing russification, and they have a very good case study for that in Belarus, which almost lost their native language. In most aspects, Russian policy is much more nationalist with all the paranoid "foreign agent" and "extremism" laws that make "extremism" out of literally anything, including criticism of annexation of Crimea.

@dump_stack

But I was with a friend from Russia who was initially scared to death as her friends (in Russia) warned her not to even single word in Russian as she will be immediately beaten and killed.

That was of course bullshit, but she didn't believe me as she just couldn't ignore these scary stories sold in Russia. After a day or so she was happily talking to everyone in Russian.

You seem to be influenced by the same propaganda I'm afraid.

@dump_stack

> so no one pushes against the Russian language in the Ukraine

How many times did you visit Ukraine since 2014? I was there probably 4-5 times, in Kyiv and in deep province (Bukovina). In all these places I was speaking Russian to people and nobody had any problem with that.

On the state level, they are certainly pushing against the influence of Russian state and pushing Ukrainian as official language, but not discriminating Russian. I was buying Russian books in center of Kyiv!

@dump_stack

> do you familiar with how jamming works

https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/3/9/484637.pdf

@dump_stack

> do people have a right to defend their culture on the soil where they are born

What culture, exactly? Because in April 2014 in Donetsk and Lugansk there were both pro-Russian and pro-Ukrainian demonstrations. The photo I linked could have been taken just as well in Donetsk in early April.

Then Girkin's team crossed from Russia and immediately started killing anyone speaking for Ukraine, like they did with Volodymyr Rybak.

@dump_stack

> there is evidence of the attack

There is evidence of a child killed by an explosive. There is no evidence of artillery or UAV attack, so please do not make that up.

> that doesn't make the story is made up

Not the whole story, just the UAV part is made up.

@dump_stack

Yes, ans the "nationalist" character of Euromaidan was best demonstrated by its name 🤭