kravietz 🦇 @kravietz@social.privacytools.io

@dump_stack @vfrmedia

> Polish nationalism

There are two basic models:

Jagiellonian, multi-ethnic and respecting individual cultures and religions, represented for example by Józef Piłsudski. This can be probably barely even called "nationalism", but this was the model of Polish state when it was at its best.

"National Democratic", that imagines a single Polish ethnicity and Roman-Catholic religion, with all its consequences like forced polonisation, represented eg by Roman Dmowski.

@dump_stack @vfrmedia

> ethnic nationalism

This is marginal in Poland, as unlike Russia it doesn't have much different ethnic groups. You could however see quite hysterical reactions of the gov when people in Śląsk (Silesia) highlighted their ethnic identity.

@kmic You don't need their portfolio of techniques to be 100% identical to make comparisons. I was talking specifically about 1) state propaganda, 2) taking control over judiciary.

@kmic It certainly is different. Interestingly, what happened in Russia in response to overwhelming takeover of TV by government was dramatic decrease in trust in these media as well as people turning towards Internet.

@kmic I think I can aspire to be have much more than merely "tourist" perspective on countries I'm talking about, as I'm spending significant amount of time there dealing with daily business and personal stuff, including contacts with local administration. This applies equally to UK, Poland and Russia in my case.

And I'm not saying Polish state today is identical to Russian, I'm just saying PL government is trying to lead it in the same direction using the same methods.

@kmic No I don't but I'm visiting Russia a few times per year (well, not this year).

@kmic

And there's a very simple reason why I'm making this comparison between Poland and Russia: I have been going to Russia since like 2000 and watched how the system evolved to limit freedom of speech, introduce extremely biased state propaganda and "patriotic education".

Seeing *exactly* the same steps taken in Poland I obviously cannot but note analogies.

And TVP today is shockingly similar to Russian state TV. The same language, the same methods...

@kmic

> how everyone focuses on Poland

Ahem, maybe they focus because they have Polish citizenship rather than French or Israeli? 🤔

@kmic And this justified the Polish and Russian lunacy... exactly how? 🤔

@kmic No idea, I'm not following laws of Israel 🤷‍♂️

@kmic

In Germany at the same time it's crime to *deny* this involvement in war crimes so it's the very opposite of what Polish and Russian laws are trying to achieve.

Quite idiotically, because taken together they should basically ban each other...

@kmic

> Polish concentration camps

This is a dumb phrase used *occasionally* by *some* media worldwide and duly corrected when Polish gov protests. There's nothing in German law that would make it a crime to basically publish historical facts from WW2.

Historic denialism at the same time is at the very core of these laws in Poland and Russia, basically trying to prevent you from saying "yes, some of our forced/citizens were involved in war crimes".

@kmic

Citizens wanted the reform to make courts faster. PiS said they will make courts faster but actually pushed legislation to introduce political control over judges. This is not what citizens wanted.

> wild conspiracy theories are pushed by opposition too

There's no conspiracy theory in Poland even closely comparable with the "zamach smoleński" bullshit pushed by Polish defense (!) minister Macierewicz.

@kmic It's shitty legislation, and it was 100% copied from the Russian one.

And then part of it was cancelled because Israel protested and USA pressured.

The only purpose of both Polish and Russian ones was to reaffirm less perceptive parts of both societies that it's all "other's fault" and "we made everything right", in obvious denial of historic facts.

@dump_stack @vfrmedia

So for example just look what they've done from a simple airplane crash in Smolensk in 2010.

The Polish conservative side made a whole political movement based on totally inconsistent conspiracy theories (very much like the MH17 lunacy in Russia).

Russian side quickly started playing divide et impera, keeping the airplane wreck in Russia under the pretext of "ongoing investigation" (still in 2020!).

Where's any space for pan-Slavism here?

@dump_stack @vfrmedia

As of today, both Russia and Poland are countries tragicomically focused on their past glory, with their populations highly divided between people trying to find their place in the future, those still ranting about past enemies who did this or that, and those who just don't give a fuck and want to be left alone.

Essentially, statistical levels of detachment from reality across the populations don't look very optimistic for both countries...

@dump_stack @vfrmedia

There's literally zero appetite for "equal" alliance between Warsaw and Moscow from both sides.

Moscow considers Warsaw to be a minor annoyance, while Warsaw considers Moscow to be Asian savages.

That's the funny thing about nationalist ideologies: Moscow and Warsaw can share very much the same values, but since they are 100% tribal ("our nation, our religion, our history etc.. are the best") they're doomed to be always opposed against the other 😂

@vfrmedia Nice, haven't even realised anyone in UK actually purchased equipment from USSR! Back then any consumer electronics produced in Eastern Europe was hopelessly outdated...

@vfrmedia And yes, this is silly because the key "conservative" activist organisations in Poland - like Ordo Iuris - were benefiting from "convervative" funds in Russia run by people such as Konstantin Malofeev. A number of nationalist politicians in Poland (Korwin-Mikke, Wilk etc) are also supporters of "getting closer" with Russia, visited occupied Crimea etc

@vfrmedia

I have no doubts that Poland would never enter such bloc because anti-Russian sentiment is an important part of PiS national-socialist rhetoric.