Replacing WhatsApp ...
Niklas
@ColinTheMathmo Matrix,Jabber or Session.All centralized services are risky as the same can happen to them what happened to Whatsapp.
@nipos Yes, good, I know that, but you're not helping. You're telling me I need to go and learn a lot of stuff. I have yet to figure out how to use Matrix, despite trying several times.
@ColinTheMathmo Where exactly do you have problems with Matrix?Maybe I can help.It's basically like email: Sign up at any server you trust,sign-in with a Matrix-compatible app and add contacts using their Matrix ID @username:server.com and start chatting.
@nipos Sign up how? Using what software? You say "Matrix-compatible app" ... I have no idea what that means.
By trying to be compatible with everything I find them ... overwhelming.
1) Go to https://app.element.io/ (which is popular web-based client for Matrix protocol)
2) Create an account at the default matrix.org instance
3) Chat to anyone in the network including all people's instances
What's complicated here?
I understand that you're talking about the usability side of Matrix, but this is a typical case with open-source protocols. https://matrix.org/ has a prominent Try Now button on the top right which takes you to the web client. Very likely in the past it was more complicated but if you managed to register with Mastodon what's the difference here?
@kravietz The extreme top right corner is not the first thing I look at. The first thing I see is:
> "An open network for secure, decentralized communication"
With a button:
> "Learn More"
I click that, and very close to the top is:
> "How can I try it out?"
> "To start chatting on Matrix you’ll need to sign up for a user account."
OK, so let's click the "Try Now" button, and I get ...
> "you need to choose a client, register an account on a homeserver, and join a room."
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CC: @nipos
@kravietz So I get that you're saying it's not hard. What you don't seem to get is that for me, and for a few other people I've talked to, going to matrix.org is a confusing experience.
You may not agree, I get that you don't, but it just feels like you're not listening.
I'm reminded of a scene where someone threw a party and everyone was enjoying themselves without playing the carefully designed games or taking part in the carefully crafted activities. They said:
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CC: @nipos
You complained you can't understand how to register.
I pointed you to the registration page. Me and like a dozen of other people tried to be helpful.
You said it's poorly linked from Matrix.org and you're just providing feedback.
To whom? Nobody here is Matrix.org webmaster I guess.
If you still can't get it I suggest user friendly client like Instagram or Snapchat.
> I'm providing feedback.
If you're scratching comments about a Brighton pub on a random wall in Swansea, you're not really providing any feedback.
@kravietz There's a classic problem here. I feel like I have a lot to offer, and I feel like my feedback, if acted on, would make a difference, but I haven't got the skills to implement those changes, I haven't got the time to acquire those skills, and I have no standing to make people pay attention.
From my standing, trying to improve it genuinely feels hopeless. "Submitting an issue" isn't really an option for me.
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CC: @nipos
Why not? You made good points here. Just write them down in GitHub issue where someone eventually will pick it up.
@kravietz I'm trying to assess why I feel so sceptical about that. I feel like the problem is that people replied "Use Matrix" as if that was a complete answer, and actually the answer/recommendation that perhaps was better would have been:
> "element.io is one of the many apps that run on top of the Matrix protocol, so you get distributed, federated messaging."
The point is that Matrix isn't, of itself, a messaging app.
Does that make sense?
CC: @nipos
@kravietz Regardless, I've spent literally all day trying to deal with this, and now I need to (a) do the work I should have been doing, and (b) figure out what to do with the copious information and opinions I've been given.
Again, thank you for your input, and I hope I've explained my concerns and grumpiness (sorry) more clearly.
CC: @nipos
@kravietz I've probably been a bit testy at points, and haven't crafted my responses as carefully as I might.
It's totally unclear what, if any, connections people have with the things they're suggesting, and time and time again I've been told "You're having fun wrong".
Many, many comments have been clearly well-intentioned, but in the end required a lengthy exchange to get useful information. It's been exhausting.
So I'm sorry if I haven't always seemed grateful.
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CC: @nipos
It's perfectly OK and everyone loves to engage in innocent rants on the Internet from time to time.
The core issue is that most non-commercial instant messengers suffer from UI issues because developing protocols is fun while developing UI is utterly boring and people usually need to be paid to do boring stuff.
@kravietz I'm extremely grateful for the help, feedback, and advice that I've been receiving. People have given their time, and I've appreciated it, and said so multiple times.
I'm providing feedback. It's not specific to matrix.org, it's relevant to all software that people might provide. I've been utterly swamped with people providing comments, feedback, suggestions, and some of it has been amazing. Some has been, well, bluntly, less than amazing.
As a result ...
CC: @nipos