New coal plant Datteln 4 test runs disrupt German power prices
By the way, by 2022 Germany plans to kill 70 TWh zero-emissions supply from nuclear power. Guess what will replace it?
@kravietz hm, let's take a look at the data
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energiemix#/media/Datei:Energiemix_Deutschland.svg
red is nuclear. below are fossils, above are renewables.
Just to give you an idea: 400 MW wind plant occupies ~70 km2.
To replace the current 7 GW from nuclear you'd need 17 such wind farms... except wind works at 30% on average due to intermittency, so you need 3x that which would require 3675 km2 so roughly area of 61x61 km2 of nothing but wind farms.
And then you would need some kind of storage (not yet existent).
the storage actually exists. what they do in Italy (not sure in other countries, i never worked in facilities there) is to use surplus of energy to pump water up to the higher dam. So they will produce energy with the same water when coming back from the dam.
https://it.qwe.wiki/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity
unfortunately I cannot find an english link in the page, but I think google translator works pretty well on same page...
Pumped storage is well known and used in all countries that have some kind of mountains, including Germany where it can cover for around... 5% of the capacity. Perspectives for increase are dim as not many residents are willing to move to allow whole valleys to be flooded for new reservoirs :)
but a nuclear plant has exactly the same issues, with excess of energy instead of lack: it cannot scale on demand. So in a low demand moment, you have to pump water up some reservoir.
When Italy was planning nuclear power, there was put a reservoir there, like in Brasimone (i used to live 15 km from there). This is because you cannot easily descale nuclear power production, and you need to distribute the power grid. Overproduction and underproduction , under the grid's perspective, are both issues you need to solve with reservoirs (or other massive way to waste energy, in case of overproduction).
last but not least, is not clear to me why you keep in consideration population's will when it comes to dams and windmill, but you ignore people protesting against nuclear power plants.
What makes you think people would accept nuclear plants better than dams?
> nuclear plants better than dams
A dam occupies tens of square kilometers of land. A nuclear power plant occupies 0.1 km2.
> it cannot scale on demand
You're talking about 70's power plants. Modern nuclear power plants can scale their output in 20 minutes. Modern gas plants for comparison - 10 minutes.
> people protesting against nuclear power plants
People protest against nuclear power plants out of ignorance while protests against dams and wind farms are rational.
> A dam occupies tens of square kilometers of land. A nuclear power plant occupies 0.1 km2.
so basically you think people is against nuclear power because of soil consumption?
> You're talking about 70's power plants. Modern nuclear power plants can scale their output in 20 minutes. Modern gas plants for comparison - 10 minutes.
On powerpoint everything works. The problem is, to scale in 20 minutes you need a smart grid. In Italy is there since 2000. IN Germany there is nothing like that, as I noticed when I moved here. You are still using electromechanical counters, not connected to any communication network. Meaning, you send humans to read consumption, while in Italy consumption is sent over the network. I used to work in the software used to receive data.
But the point is, no power plant can scale in 20 minutes, just because it needs to know it must scale, and with no smart grid you cannot. You cannot take the measure on the plant itself, because the grid will take a lot to charge and discharge.
So yes, on powerpoint modern nuclear plants can scale in 20 minutes, IF there is a smart grid, IF the grid itself support discharging and charging back with the same slew rate.
I smell propaganda , being honest.
> People protest against nuclear power plants out of ignorance while protests against dams and wind farms are rational.
Yes, everone is equal, but someone is more equal. And of course, you decide who.
Sorry, I still smell propaganda here.
> And of course, you decide who
I'm an IT guy and don't decide on anything energy-related.I have just the same right to speak about it as you. And when I see Greenpeace spreading information that is simply false from scientific and engineering point of view, I'm speaking about it. So can you. Prove me wrong.
