Just tried to order a #PinePhone. Unfortunately it turns out that the #Pine64 store uses #PayPal as their sole payment processor.
Given that I am a big proponent of voting with my feet, and PayPal is blacklisted from handling both my money and my private information, this won't do.
Is there any other way to get money to @PINE64 or do we have a No Deal?
Direct bank transfer is preferred, but if necessary I could look into getting myself a proper credit card.
@kravietz @PINE64 @Coffee for me that's still a show-stopper. I would never use #Paypal, & transfers is dicey because there's no clawback mechanism should there be a problem with the delivery or the condition of the phone. A project like Pinephone shouldn't even be accepting Paypal.. they don't know their customer.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo
@kravietz @Coffee
We are actively working on exploring other methods of payment. However, the most promising options are either extremely difficult for a worldwide market (credit/debit card) or highly divisive (cryptocurrency). Look at some of the most recent toots on this account for more information.
Thanks for response - I guess you might just make it easier for people to pay with a bank transfer as it's the most direct and usually cheapest option for all parties involved.
Also I fully understand why you don't want to get paid in highly volatile commodities like BTC or ETH, but there is also DAI which is bound to USD and thus provide you stable exchange rate - and works like a charm in terms of speed and cost.
@kravietz @PINE64 @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Coffee I don't use cryptocurrencies but is there not a mechanism to do conversions automatically after payment? I thought I'd heard that during the Pandemic Vietnam was doing something to the that effect.
@LPS @PINE64 @aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @Coffee
For classic cryptocurriencies like ETH and BTC the problem is that the exchange rate is jumping up and down all the time so it would be like someone paying with company shares - today 1 share is worth $100, tomorrow $75, and after tomorrow $110. This volatility was making cryptocurrencies rather useless for service or goods payments. DAI solves this problem - its exchange rate is roughly $1 all the time.
@kravietz @Coffee @PINE64 @LPS i'm not familiar with DAI but it sounds like a good option. @LPS yes, and i believe if you walk through the steps to donate to Torproject, that's an example of how it can be done. You specify a USD amount, and then it computes a realtime conversion. TP receives the amount in a national currency, I believe.
@LPS @PINE64 @Coffee @kravietz All crypto currencies I've encountered are quite hard to acquire, as most exchangers either abuse privacy or take an unreasonable fee. @PINE64 is looking for a universal solution & that's dreaming. They can only expect to cater for each market. Offer credit card payments to those in N.America, SEPA for Eurozone, etc. In any case, I will never pay with #Paypal.
@aktivismoEstasMiaLuo @LPS @PINE64 @Coffee
Cryptocurrencies have been traditionally marketed as "anonymous" and "privacy-friendly" but I consider this to be a huge bullshit as these terms are largely incompatible with the very concept of public ledger aka blockchain.
What I do like about DAI is that the payment is very easy (unlike SWIFT), you don't need any personal data for the payment itself (unlike PayPal, debit card, SWIFT) and when I send $10 the seller gets $10 (unlike ETH/BTC).
I have some DAI savings which I keep in https://oasis.app/save which a DAI deposit account with interest. When I need to buy something for DAI I move the needed amount to my "current" wallet that sits in my web browser with https://metamask.io/ add-on and pay for the goods from there.
@kravietz This is very helpful for the uninitiated.. like me:) I appreciate the tips.
Luckily I found a local ATM that sells a whole range of Crypto currencies. So what you're suggesting is DAI as the initial purchase and convert on demand via the browser depending on what they accept?
I'd love to contribute to many of these open projects or even things like podcasts but refuse to use paypal, stripe etc...
If the ATM sells DAI then definitely go for it - or you can buy ETH and then convert to DAI, or just contribute in ETH.
When I needed to buy DAI in the past I was using CoinBase or Uphold using a debit card. The primary gain here is that you use your debit card once with one company rather than copying/typing the details each time you buy something worth a few dollars, and then worrying those idiots will lose your card details in a data breach :) I wish more companies accepted DAI as it's so easy to use.
@kravietz but then you're getting into multiple transactions aren't you? In my region I do have access to ATMs that sell Bitcoin and accept cash. I'll have to see if they sell Coinbase or Uphold.
Thanks:)
@kravietz Do you have an exchange or machine where you prefer to purchase it? Aren't you then using Credit, debit anyway? This is the chicken/egg situation I find with Crypto